Since I make it a habit not to start fights on other people's blog and I'm adding on message boards to that rule, I thought I would bring this discussion over here. Nicole pointed out to me a thread on Relevant about bad marriage proposals. The girl who started the thread posted these 2 things:
"So my boyfriend popped the question on October 15, and it was bad. It was just all around, bad. Girls dream of that day. The romance, the love, the guy kneeling, etc." (Things which were apparently lacking.)
"I had been waiting for months, and then he's so horrible at keeping a secret, that I knew it was coming. And that irritated me. And then, when I was pretty sure he was going to do it that night, I was thinking in my mind, 'Ugh, I know about it and this is not fun. Don't do it!'"
First of all, I can't imagine how the guy would feel if he read these things. I really think a message board is not the place to air these sort of grievances. She should be talking it over with him. To give her the benefit of the doubt perhaps she has, but if so she should let it go and not be posting these things.
And I just get the feeling that she doesn't even actually like or know this guy that well. I mean if he's clumsy and bad at keeping secrets and bad at planning special events don't you think you would know that much before it gets to the point of proposing? And if you don't love him regardless then you shouldn't be getting engaged. 'Cause honey I gotta tell you that his awkward proposal is going to be the least of your concerns. If you can't move past it & even learn to laugh about it you should seriously consider how you expect you can spend the rest of your life with this guy.
While I think there is something to be said for romantic gestures I also feel that we put way too much stock in these things. And as women we also expect guys too often to be able to read our minds. We are amazingly complex creatures who half the time don't even know ourselves what we want, how can we expect someone who doesn't hear our every thought to know? So give guys a bit of slack here. If you're serious enough to be considering marriage he should know whether you like white or yellow gold and whether it's a decision that is going to be earth shattering for you if he screws it up, and you have to be the one to tell him. He should have an idea of how you imagine being proposed to because you've at least discussed it generally. He should know if you feel that proposing on your birthday, Christmas, Valentine's Day, or at a public event is okay. (It's not.) He should know which of your friends he should talk to if he needs advice on the ring and how to propose. If you haven't bothered to tell him the little things that matter to you how can you expect him to know? And if you don't feel you can talk to him about those things you are certainly not ready to consider marriage because there are so many bigger things to deal with together.
"So my boyfriend popped the question on October 15, and it was bad. It was just all around, bad. Girls dream of that day. The romance, the love, the guy kneeling, etc." (Things which were apparently lacking.)
"I had been waiting for months, and then he's so horrible at keeping a secret, that I knew it was coming. And that irritated me. And then, when I was pretty sure he was going to do it that night, I was thinking in my mind, 'Ugh, I know about it and this is not fun. Don't do it!'"
First of all, I can't imagine how the guy would feel if he read these things. I really think a message board is not the place to air these sort of grievances. She should be talking it over with him. To give her the benefit of the doubt perhaps she has, but if so she should let it go and not be posting these things.
And I just get the feeling that she doesn't even actually like or know this guy that well. I mean if he's clumsy and bad at keeping secrets and bad at planning special events don't you think you would know that much before it gets to the point of proposing? And if you don't love him regardless then you shouldn't be getting engaged. 'Cause honey I gotta tell you that his awkward proposal is going to be the least of your concerns. If you can't move past it & even learn to laugh about it you should seriously consider how you expect you can spend the rest of your life with this guy.
While I think there is something to be said for romantic gestures I also feel that we put way too much stock in these things. And as women we also expect guys too often to be able to read our minds. We are amazingly complex creatures who half the time don't even know ourselves what we want, how can we expect someone who doesn't hear our every thought to know? So give guys a bit of slack here. If you're serious enough to be considering marriage he should know whether you like white or yellow gold and whether it's a decision that is going to be earth shattering for you if he screws it up, and you have to be the one to tell him. He should have an idea of how you imagine being proposed to because you've at least discussed it generally. He should know if you feel that proposing on your birthday, Christmas, Valentine's Day, or at a public event is okay. (It's not.) He should know which of your friends he should talk to if he needs advice on the ring and how to propose. If you haven't bothered to tell him the little things that matter to you how can you expect him to know? And if you don't feel you can talk to him about those things you are certainly not ready to consider marriage because there are so many bigger things to deal with together.
Comments
Ok, just for a second I was. I am very excited that there are actually women out there that can partially relate to the things guys have to go through with this.
In the movies, guys can just go up to a woman, say something romantic / witty / funny, and the girl just gushes....
In reality, it takes hours if not days for a guy to get up the guts to talk to a girl about something. I can't imagine what it would be like to propose to a girl.
Even after going through the scenario in our heads over and over, things never go the way we planned. Sometimes we slip up on what we were going to say and the girl thinks that is cute. Other times, we are totally out of vibe with the girl and she is wondering why you are talking to her about this.
Thanks for understanding....that made my evening :)
Are you kidding me? Do you love him? I don't care how bad someone blows a surprise, if you love someone wouldn't you just be thrilled you are one step closer to becoming one?
Here is my real problem with this whole issue...When did our focus become ourselves (women)? What does the proposal have to do with a Godly man or preparation for a Godly marriage? Remember a time when we didn't even have a say in the decision....
I am not even going to claim I don't have certain ideas about what is and isn't okay concerning my own proposal, but is the event of the proposal more important than the answer to the question?
And, I am with you Aziner, you should know each other well enough to know the simple things. My roommate in college was dating her future husband when he came to me and shared his plan for proposing. Then, he sought my help in making it happen...he knew I would know better than anyone else if it would be something that would make the day memorable for her. (And by the way, he did a wonderful job!!!!!)
I could go on forever....I'll stop.
Ashlee, I agree. And with regards to it being a surprise I think that it should never be a surprise that a guy is going to propose. Exactly when and how he does it can be a surprise, but that he wants to marry you should have been already discussed. And I think that if he happens to blow the surprise it's probably less about his ineptitude and more that he is so excited about taking this next step that he just can't keep it a secret. I think if women would look at it that way they would find it rather endearing. And you're totally right that the focus should be much more on preparing for a Godly marriage. Our culture's take on dating and marriage is clearly very skewed. And I think a lot of it as Tmproff mentioned has to do with the movies. Stupid Hollywood ruining things for everyone. ;P Seriously though I think chick flicks are remarkably detrimental to women so much so that I rarely watch them. This is not to say that there are not great love stories to be seen in film, but romantic comedies are not the place to find them. (If someone has a good example of one that is I'd be happy to be corrected.) But my recommendation if you want to see a good love story is to watch The Village. It's quite incredible really.
Okay done rambling now. :)
And I don't think there's anything wrong with fantasy, as long as it remains just that.
I fell in love with the girl from the Village after that movie...
I totally agree, they developed a great romance in that movie.
I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I'm done saying things for now.
On another note, I think that chick flicks are bad because they teach women that those moments are the ones that matter and not the ones where he cleans up your puke when you're pregnant, or when he goes out to start your car when it's cold. They teach people that true romance can only happen outside of the context of reality like you guys were talking about. Romance happens in days, in weeks, in months, and even years. It's an attitude, a lifestyle, not a moment that a guy happens to get right (which would therefore excuse him to be a jerk for the rest of his life as long as he made moments every once in a while).